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qoustion about HEAT and HE shell and thair effet to make enemy on fire

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qoustion about HEAT and HE shell and thair effet to make enemy on fire

Post  zed22 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:08 pm

hello
i always think HEAT and HE shell have more chance to make enemy on fire when it damage engine or fuel tank ... was it wrong?

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Re: qoustion about HEAT and HE shell and thair effet to make enemy on fire

Post  CountOfTuscany on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:36 pm

according to the wiki it sshould be the same for AP/HE/HEAT/APCR.
Maybe HE would be slightly more effective than AP because the spalling cone of an external expolsion might spread over a bigger area?

http://wiki.worldoftanks.eu/Battle_Mechanics#Armour_Damage
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Re: qoustion about HEAT and HE shell and thair effet to make enemy on fire

Post  vorlontank on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:15 pm

i haven't noticed a difference in the chance to catch fire personally, but i find that HE seems to cause more criticals, that aren't track damage

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Re: qoustion about HEAT and HE shell and thair effet to make enemy on fire

Post  Daeworn on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:38 pm

vorlontank wrote:i haven't noticed a difference in the chance to catch fire personally, but i find that HE seems to cause more criticals, that aren't track damage

HE shells have also good chance to cnock crew members => criticals too. So if you want to pissed high armored beasts with low gun, just spam tham with 20 dmg HE shots and cnock their crew out.

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Re: qoustion about HEAT and HE shell and thair effet to make enemy on fire

Post  vorlontank on Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:29 am

Daeworn wrote:
vorlontank wrote:i haven't noticed a difference in the chance to catch fire personally, but i find that HE seems to cause more criticals, that aren't track damage

HE shells have also good chance to cnock crew members => criticals too. So if you want to pissed high armored beasts with low gun, just spam tham with 20 dmg HE shots and cnock their crew out.

yes, this is my tactic usually with hull down monsters or higher tier heavies/tds. nothing annoys more than having your gunner/loader/driver killed.and then having it done again.

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Re: qoustion about HEAT and HE shell and thair effet to make enemy on fire

Post  Arnold_Judas_Rimmer on Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:20 am

Interesting...I shall conduct some tests and seek some info. I think you gents are right about the chance.. if the wiki can be trusted.

I like the idea of using HE to pick weakspots. I use the HE ammo on the KV1 and found in platoons with some nice SGTA guys that having a platoon of 3 KV1's or 2 KV1's + X armed with the long gun 85mm worked very well. I notice I get alot of critical hits in games where I either A: fire large HE rounds or B: fire AP from faster long guns such as the excelsior gun.

So I shall try and use smaller caliber HE to aim at weakspots and see if I can increase critical hit rate over standard AP aimed in the same way.

Im guessing that firing HE with my excelsior at a KV1S might be futile? or will it work enough? Ill need to be a bit behind my allied lines I guess.


Ill post back with some less than proffesional test results.
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Re: qoustion about HEAT and HE shell and thair effet to make enemy on fire

Post  Vallu01 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:34 am

I have never given much though on this as I don't use HE for anything else than for when I have to reset the cap. So I'm not 100% sure on this.

AP/APCR work in the "normal" way. Penetrate and you do damage. Nothing special. Continues in a straight line for 10 caliber lengths IRC.
HEAT got slightly changed in 8.6. Before it was the same as AP/APCR
Spoiler:
New Mechanics for HEAT Shells

Currently, the way the mechanics work means that the effect of HEAT shells is barely different to normal Armor-Piercing shells. To increase the difference between them, and also to decrease the influence of HEAT shells on gameplay, we have decided to change their mechanics in the 8.6 Update to make them more realistic:

HEAT shells will start to ricochet if the impact angle is greater than 80 degrees. Please note that every shell can have slightly different settings. The armor penetration after ricochet will remain the same.
After penetration, a HEAT shell cannot ricochet inside the tank as the shell is transformed into a continuous stream.
After penetration, the HEAT shell will lose 5% of armor penetration force for each 10cm of travelling distance
After penetration, the force with which the HEAT shell continues to travel through the armor will take into account the angle of impact between the armor and penetration spot.
Overall, these changes mean that HEAT shells will now have ricochets instead of penetrations with 0 damage and less armor penetration values when it meets spaced armor (Maus drivers will love this change). Also of note, the tracks of a vehicle will also count as spaced armor for HEAT shells.

HE/HESH Explodes upon impact creating a 45° cone (Splash damage). Which means it has better change to hit crew members and modules. It has better change to kill crew members, but I can't remember it having better change to damage modules. Other than better change to hit them of course.

So directly, no it doesn't have a better change to damage fuel tanks. Indirectly, due to splash damage, yes it does.

This is just from top of my head, so I might have missed something.

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Re: qoustion about HEAT and HE shell and thair effet to make enemy on fire

Post  CountOfTuscany on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:34 am

Vallu01 wrote:
HE/HESH Explodes upon impact creating a 45° cone (Splash damage). Which means it has better change to hit crew members and modules. It has better change to kill crew members, but I can't remember it having better change to damage modules. Other than better change to hit them of course.

So directly, no it doesn't have a better change to damage fuel tanks. Indirectly, due to splash damage, yes it does.

This is just from top of my head, so I might have missed something.

actually,according to the wiki, ap/apcr shells have 33% change to knock out crew VS 10% change for internal/external explosion (would be HE). Don't know about heat and hesh.
change to hit a module stays the same, shell type doesn't matter.
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Re: qoustion about HEAT and HE shell and thair effet to make enemy on fire

Post  Daeworn on Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:06 pm

Arnold_Judas_Rimmer wrote:
So I shall try and use smaller caliber HE to aim at weakspots and see if I can increase critical hit rate over standard AP aimed in the same way.

I am not sure if repeated critical dmg = dmg crew or module will be as much effective as you expect. When your dmg is eaten by module = no dmg to tank, you cripple it a bit but nothing else. Your next hit at the same module have still probability to only reset the repair timer and still cause no dmg to tank = that’s the reason of our maneuver to drive a bit backwards and angled, from behind the corner, as your tracks cover your weak side hull and simply eat dmg instead of the whole tank, if there is only one enemy. The same it is with other modules, like gun with face hugging maneuver, ... Some modules can catch fire, but I think they can't catch fire if they were damaged and are in repairing phase (Kawa would know for sure), you just reset repair timer. So repeated critical sounds good, but the tank can still hold you occupied, as you do a little dmg to him and in time others will get you.

CountOfTuscany wrote:
actually,according to the wiki, ap/apcr shells have 33% change to knock out crew VS 10% change for internal/external explosion (would be HE). Don't know about heat and hesh.
change to hit a module stays the same, shell type doesn't matter.

well the chance for HE can seem lower compare to AP/APCR, but you have to take in account, that AP/APCR had to come through the crew member position to have chance to hit him, compare to HE, which needs to be close and can "splash" multiple crew members and modules with one explosion ... happen to me, when 1 HE shot knock out both crew members in my MS-1 and tank become in-operational with 75% armor HP left. As you cant revive crew members by med kit with no crew left to do it.

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Re: qoustion about HEAT and HE shell and thair effet to make enemy on fire

Post  Boos B on Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:57 pm

damn there goes 1 quarter of my july 22 class Razz

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