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How to play reasonably fast firing TDs

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How to play reasonably fast firing TDs

Post  CountOfTuscany on Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:41 am

I have played my way up the German and TD lines up to the Jagdpanther and the T49. I also own a SU-122-44 and a JT8.8.

The Jagdpanther is giving me some trouble. I currently use the 8,8cm Pak43 (haven't got the 10,5cm unlocket yet). In it's nature the Jagdpanther loves to snipe and to stay hidden in bushes, forests and jungles.
It seems like sniping is, just like peek-a-booing, really dependend on high alpha to mkae up for a lower RoF. IMO the 8,8 fires too fast to be used in a bushy surounding. When you shoot, the bushes will be less effective in camoing you and you might be visible for some 5-10(?) seconds. JP isn't really that armoured to take a beating.
JT8.8 got the somehow the same problem, but it's less of a problem: it fires even faster, but it's got some armor to make up for this.

Is my playstyle wrong? Shouldn't I camp with my JP? should I focus on camo or peek from hard cover? use gun depression? play assualt gun and bring my DPM to the front? Or should I stay even further back?

Do any of the experienced TD guides/instructors/players have some advice how to tackle this? I appreciate answers below, classes or personal lessons or whatever.
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Re: How to play reasonably fast firing TDs

Post  Kokotni on Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:13 am

Firstly we have the double bush rule. Get in a bush that has another bush at least 15 metres in front of you that way when you fire you gun flash isnt exposed to enemy. If you cant use a double bush then get yourself 15 metres behind the bush you are using to be sneeky behind.

Secondly in simplistic terms think of a battle as being 3 attack lines

First line is heavys, second line is mediums, third is tank destroyers

So again in simplistic terms the attack line would look like this

TD -> Med -> Heavy -------- Heavy <- Med <- TD

Now when the 2 lines of heavys engage, they cant actually see the 2nd and 3rd lines, but the 2nd and 3rd lines can see the opposing heavy line, and that is where a quick firing td is useful, get the enemy heavys down as quickly as possible, so that your 3 attack lines can then move up to take out the medium line. Obviously the enemy is trying to do the same back , so this is when good use of positioning, use of cover, flanking, and both scout and arty play then come into play.

The Jagdpanther is a very low profile tank, and has a good camo rating, therefore you ideally want to get behind a bush that has a ridge just in front of it, and position yourself so you can just about shoot over that ridge, in an even tier game not much is going to be able to hit you from distance, even 1 tier higher tanks will struggle, especially if once you fire pull back for a second or two, again its not always about the rate of fire, but both the aim time and accuracy of your gun.

So get your crew researched up on camo, put on a camo net, you need to do everything you can to keep this as stealthy as possible, whilst making sure that you keep your gun active.

Once you are able to get sixth sense on your Commander, then train up camo again, never be afraid of retreating and repositioning if spotted and taking fire. Again the jadgpanther is reasonably manouverable, so make use of that when needed.

I guess the other thing you could do is post some links to games in your jagdpather, so we can see how you are playing it exactly and then we can offer some pointers on how to just maybe tweek your style

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Re: How to play reasonably fast firing TDs

Post  Brainfarter on Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:51 pm

Regarding the Jpanther, if you have time you might find some inspiration in some of my uploads to wotreplays.

http://wotreplays.com/uploader/Brainfarter/id/274448/tank/411/type/4/

If nothing else, theres an idea on what not to do ;-)

/B

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Re: How to play reasonably fast firing TDs

Post  CountOfTuscany on Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:53 am

Thanks for your replies.

I think I should use the double bushing technique more often. I dislike the double-bushing technique for not being able to spot myself, and having to rely on the red outline of the enemy tank i.e. don't see the tank myself.

I wanted to take a look at your replays Brainfarter, but they didn't work. I can't watch replays of previous patches :/

I have played 1 JP battle since last patch. It's on Prokhorovka, mostly sniping, with no succes (tier 9 game).

http://wotreplays.com/site/420749#team


Other battle, with different tank: SU-122-44. Looks like JP but doesn't really play like it. Battle is on Severogorsk, and I would play my JP exactly the same as you see in this replay. You might also take a look at this one. O, and this one is also tier 9.
http://wotreplays.com/site/420759#team

What is your opinion on these replays?
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Re: How to play reasonably fast firing TDs

Post  Kokotni on Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:10 am

Hi there Count

First one is difficult as, your team didnt advance very far on the west. I like to be around the d or e row on that map, close to where the Su 100m1 was, as I feel that this gives you a better position for flanking shots to the east,which are difficult to make due to the raised ridges as well as having a chance to spot the enemy defensive positions on the west , however as your heavy's stayed back on the west it was kind of difficult for you to advance, given the previous advice, thus your chances were limited.

The Su 122 game was obviously slightly different, you took up more of a defensive aggressive position, which was ideal for getting some flanking shots in, I guess the only thing I would say there, was that once you were spotted, you were basically locked down, you didnt have much of an escape route. The other thing I noticed, was that you shot at the centre of a lot of moving tanks, and thus your shells ended up missing behind the tank, and some practice of leading a target may be useful.

I've given you a couple of links to a few games in my Jagdpanther, they are nothing special, I don't do anything amazing, so they arent exciting games to watch.

http://wotreplays.com/site/421005#airfield-kokotni-jagdpanther

Tier 9 game, we had a 41% win chance according to XVM. I took standard TD position, however it wasnt working for me, so took up a more defensive aggressive position, which ended up trading a couple of shots with a tiger, and ended up with us having a 3 v 2 advantage to have a chance to win the game.

http://wotreplays.com/site/420960#self

Some may agree with the Marder here, and say I camped like a boss, however I would argue that for most of the game I was putting in effective fire on one flank, thus there was not a lot I could do about other flank. Again there is nothing special at all in my play, I find a position and am reasonably effective, however given that we lose, maybe overall tactically I could have played it different.

http://wotreplays.com/site/420907#report

Tier 9 game, and of the 3 the one I did the least damage in. This is a definite average game, I got no kills, and did my own hp in damage, so definately nothing exciting. Again I took up a standard TD position, but despite being spotted a few times, I took no damage, and even bounced 2 shots, and that the only reason I've included this one.

Unfortunately most of my other Jag replays, (the good ones Smile )are on 8.7 so I cant play them, if you are able to them you may wish to take a look

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Re: How to play reasonably fast firing TDs

Post  CountOfTuscany on Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:44 am

Got this JP battle today. Nice little safari. That ridge with the bushes on top of it is excellent for the JP.
http://wotreplays.com/site/423248#komarin-countoftuscany-jagdpanther
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Re: How to play reasonably fast firing TDs

Post  Kokotni on Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:18 pm

Ok just watched the replay, so firstly lets get the one bad bit out, and I will admit that I am just as guilty as this on occasion.

The location you took up is a good defensive location, however initially I would have tried to be in a further forward position to support those tanks on your team that were advancing in the east. Neither yourself or the other JP were in a position to get shots off against the enemy team, to help your advancing forces to get into cover positions themselves, thus you lost 3 tanks quickly. As I said previously I like to try and adopt a defensive aggressive position, in that you need to be far enough back not to be seen, but in a position where you can provide covering fire, and I'd have preferred you to get to H9/0 as your first position, giving you a better chance to get some shots off, and also giving you a location to retreat too, that being the position at J/K 9/0. However as I said that is something I still struggle with on occasion, its a fine line knowing how far you can go forward and still be safe, and given your concerns about dying to easily previously,I can understand your caution, so whilst it may seem like I'm being critical here, I'm not ,I'm just trying to give you things to think about in the future.

Once those forward scouts were dead, it got a bit difficult on the east side for your team, as either yourself or the other JP, needed to be the eyes on that side, and given the amount of forces coming forward there wasnt a lot you could do other than dig in and let them advance, and trust that your vision was better. With there only being the one arty on each team, that helped in that the enemy arty focussed on the other flank. I think therefore you defended as best as you could there, once the advancing forces had been reduced, you tried to adopt a more aggressive approach with the other JP, who seemed to ignore you, but luckily the panther was to advance, and you provided him with support.

At the end of the day you were second top damage dealer and 4th in xp, I always work on the basis that if my team wins and I'm in the top 7 for xp, then I've had a good battle, obviously the nearer the top the better, and for a defeat I'm looking to be in the top 4. So it has to be said that on that basis and given that the majority of players on your team all performed, you had a decent result

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Re: How to play reasonably fast firing TDs

Post  CountOfTuscany on Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:15 am

That's some food for thought. Thanks Kokotni!

I have got some new replays. If yo uare interested you can take a look at them.

Jagdpanther, 1st mastery badge
1st mastery badge Smile


I got in contact wit hHamafix and played some toons with him today. I don't know another player that has more battles in the Jagdpanther.

http://wotreplays.com/site/425291#sacred_valley-countoftuscany-jagdpanther
Battle on Sacred Valley. Lost almost all my health early on. pretty stupid. JP's camo just doesn't cut it.

http://wotreplays.com/site/425303#erlenberg-countoftuscany-jagdpanther
Playing Assault on Erlenberg pretty defensively (how is that Laughing )

http://wotreplays.com/site/425308#self
Siegfriedline on the Defence. Tried some flanking. Not really succesful

http://wotreplays.com/site/425314?secret=0b4af14c784679c0025f2501f2cc1821
Lakeville Encounter, I think I was a bit too aggressive in the beginning (when I met T29). I could easily have had tanks firing at me from the other side of the lake. Later on I was messing around in the city. Also stupid move to meet ARL...

http://wotreplays.com/site/425319#sand_river-countoftuscany-jagdpanther
Tier 9 battle, Sand River Encounter. Got of the field ASAP and postioned on the ridge. Had some lol shots: tracking IS-8 and JP II, and killing tier 8 Waffleträger


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