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What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

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What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Dannyboy on Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:22 am

Let's assume an average wr is 48%, what does it take to achieve that?

let's take my T18. With about 150 battles, i have a 1.95 roughly kill and damage ratio. I'm doing 160% of my tank's health on average in a game. Can someone explain to me why my wr is only 47.97% Surely my performance is above average, and so my wr should be as well...?

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Brainfarter on Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:57 pm

Simplified, winrate depends on others to perform as well. Your own performance is.. well, your own.

You can only carry the team a certain distance, sometimes its not all the way to victory.

Shrug, and keep focusing on your own performance. If the winrate comes, it comes.

Another thing is, with the 150 battles and 47,97 one more battle could have tipped it over to a 48%+ wr. You need a much larger population to make assumptions out of statistics.

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Dannyboy on Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:07 pm

I guess your right about the wr. However, you have to assume in wot, that after a certain number of battles, your team performance is irrelevant. For example, after 500 battles, your teammates compared to the enemy should remain average, and so the only difference to separate players, and why wrs differ, is individual performances.

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Daeworn on Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:36 pm

With rising number of battles, the "weight" of each of them diminish. So at the end, if you win or lose it actually does not matter so much compare to your beginnings. But, personally, I would not bother with win rate, as it is the easiest thing to be boost or screwed by your teammates.
On other hand, if you drive your tank with above average performance (as you say, you do 160% of your health in dmg, and take close to 2 tanks, before you die), then its good. All the rest depends, how lucky you are to get better teammates, then your enemy does.

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  IronClaw on Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:22 pm

Numbers are always deceptive. It is not just the amount of damage you do that counts, but also where and when you do it. Let me explain by two examples.

Example 1.
TD1, a T18, is playing a match. He moves to a standard TD spot, quite far at the back of the map. After a few minutes, not much has been spotted that he can shoot though. It turns out the enemy team lemminged to the other side of the map. Things don't look particularly well. Most of his heavies are there, but they are greatly outnumbered. Our TD sits patiently and waits, he knows they will eventually come to him. By the time the score is 5-11, the enemy lemmings start rolling into his sight. Because there's not many allies left to spot for him, it takes a while before he notices them, but then he puts his T18 derp to good use. He ends up doing 500 damage and makes 3 kills before he too gets overrun. The battle ends in a 9-15 defeat, because the enemy decided to "no cap, kill all". Our TD is the top damage dealer on his team.

TD2, a T18, is playing a match. He moves to a standard TD spot, quite far at the back of the map. After a few minutes, not much has been spotted that he can shoot though. It turns out the enemy team lemminged to the other side of the map. Realising this is a bad situation for his team, he abandons his good TD spot and moves to the other flank. It's not such a great spot, but from there he can support the flank against all the lemmings. The flank eventually falls, but not before our TD scored 400 damage and 2 kills. By the time the flank falls the score is 8-8, but because the enemy lemminged all on one side, the allies now have a tactical advantage and they win the map. Our TD is 4th on damage done on his team.

Just doing a lot of damage is not enough to say if you're doing well. Of course, the opposite is *usually* (but still not always) true. Not doing damage usually means you're not doing well.
A common saying is: Damage dealt early is worth more than damage dealt late.
Of course, the combining it is even better: dealing damage early AND staying alive to deal damage at the end. But I very often see TD's that end up doing a LOT of damage *after* the battle is already lost, just because they prefer to forever stick to their great TD spot instead of adapting to the situation and sacrificing their awesome campspot for a lesser, but more useful, spot.

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Bloodrave on Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:03 pm

Dannyboy wrote:However, you have to assume in wot, that after a certain number of battles, your team performance is irrelevant. For example, after 500 battles, your teammates compared to the enemy should remain average, and so the only difference to separate players, and why wrs differ, is individual performances.
Statistics are valid when you use a huge number iterations, think more like 1 billion instead of 500...

Now that that misconception if out of the air it's clear that you can lose 500 games in a row without violating the "laws" of statistics and thus explains the persons with 10k+ games played and a WR around 40%. All statistics come with an error margin that includes things like rounding errors, limitations of model, ... (basing your conclusions on 500 games will usually make your error margin skyrocket)

So let's take an example with fake values that are just chosen because they keep it easy:
average WR solo -> 48%
error on average -> 1%

This is only valid for solo play as it starts to get nasty once you bring in platoons and company play because it's difficult to tell if you are making the difference or if it's someone else in your group. (this goes both direction)

This means that if your WR is between 47% and 49% you are average and in WOT terms you are neither a liability nor an asset to your team. This is where percentage wise you will find the most players.
If your WR is bellow 46% you are a liability to your team, not only do you bring nothing to table you tend to create situations that are dangerous for the team. Think bots, people that play one step higher than aggressive, people camping in spots where they can't help their team.
If your WR is above 49% you are starting to help your team, the higher your WR the more you're able to influence the result (creating opportunities, vision control, area denial, ...)

Dannyboy wrote:let's take my T18. With about 150 battles, i have a 1.95 roughly kill and damage ratio. I'm doing 160% of my tank's health on average in a game. Can someone explain to me why my wr is only 47.97% Surely my performance is above average, and so my wr should be as well...?
First of all taking a T2 tank to try to understand your performance is not really a good idea because:
- anything can happen in T2 and T3 battles: low hp, fast guns, no armor, fast tanks, ...
- doing at least my health in damage: that rule is completely invalid in lower tiers

Unless I'm wrong the T18 is usaly used with the derp gun:

IV 75 mm Howitzer M1A1 42 175/110 HP 38/91 mm

T18 has 125HP but the derp can do that in 1 shot and will one shot a lot of tanks in it's tier bracket. But the inverse is also true, a T18 can one or 2 shotted by several tanks.

Basically 2 kills on average is low for the T18, either you are at the wrong place or to aggressive (either because your team doesn't spot for you or you are just playing #yolo). Also you usually don't start playing a T2 with a 100% crew and maybe even without a GLD or vent which makes this howitzer very unreliable which could explain the difference with your overall WR.

Conclusion:
- don't use a seal clubber tank to evaluate your overall performance
- If you want to compare with a specific tank, do it with your solo WR (I don't have access to noobmeter atm so I can't see if companies had a positive influence on your WR and only you can know what amount of games you played in platoons)
- start looking at your performance with ~T8 tanks instead as they are generally considered to be the most balanced (excluding premium tanks)
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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Dannyboy on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:06 am

Bloodrave:

I'm a 2k battles player with a less than half a years experience... i dont have T7 tanks, let alone T8 tanks, and even T2 is still not what could be justified as sealclubbing, given my lack of experience. Plus, most of my T18 games were done about 1-2k battles ago

If you say 2 kills is less than average for a T18 player... well perhaps, but in no way should relative to the tank performance affect wr.

And to ironclaw:

most of my fighting is  done in the early game.. you could say im a 'little' aggressive and my teammates do tend to abandom me to be alone on an entire flank often.. yes i probably play it like an aggressive heavy which isnt ideal but hey.. noone else is willing to take the front line and someone has to do it

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  RoninRage on Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:11 am

Hi Dannyboy!

Playing to aggressiv ... one thing i have to learn myself still most of the time. Normally the first one to face the enemy is the first one to die (first one spotted so everybody and arty is going for you). At least this is what hits me hard on mid tiers (7 and 8 ). I forgot this a long time for higher tiers behemoth brought it back to my mind in the personal lesson last week that in example an IS is a tier 7 heavy but it is not of much use in the first line of the battle when there is a big part of the team tier 9. I think this is also true for lower tiers.

So in my opinion to be successful even at low tiers it is important to have a look on the composition of the enemy team which means you need an overview what tank can do what.
First of all is it tier 2 only or tier 3? What are the strongest tanks (armour wise penetration and alpha damage wise) to face? What are their best players? Where might they go on the map?
Based on this you decide where to go, how aggressiv you want to play and you have to make a assesment as the battle unfoldes and thru different stages of it. I don't know if you have ever played in one of wasps tc's where he repeats the words "don't take unnecessary hits" and "play it smart" this are things that are also valid in randoms and one by me: "Don't get greedy" (my personal No1 reason for getting killed).
At least I try to play so even if it does not work out all the times.

Another thing is take your time to look through your replays, see how others play the tank your struggeling in (replays, youtube, etc). Ask more experienced players/instructors who have experience with this tank.

@Bloodrave I agree most of the parts except the winrate part. Even if my winrate is not too bad (57 overall 55 randoms only) you should be afraid of having me in your team in the IS-3 or Centurion because most of the time I would not carry my weight even if I am able to do this and more on the tiers 1-6. But I am working on that and it will come with training, experience and reviewing my playstyle at least I think/hope so.
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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Vallu01 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:51 am

I will add one more example to Iron's 2.

TD3, a T18, is playing a match. He moves to a standard TD spot, quite far at the back of the map. After a few minutes, not much has been spotted that he can shoot though. It turns out the enemy team lemminged to the other side of the map. Realising this is a bad situation for his team, he abandons his good TD spot and moves to the other flank. It's not such a great spot, but from there he can support the flank against all the lemmings. Even with his help the flank is starting to lose. Using the speed the TD he relocates further back and deals more damage and gets more kills. In the end his team crushes the enemy from 2 sides and he ends up having most damage and kills in the game.

And just about stats in general. TD's are damage dealers with low hp. Of course you are meant to do more damage your hp. I played my T18 running around and derping stuff like an idiot and I have 2,6 damage ratio and 59%. In something else like Hellcat that I actually play serious (most of the time). I have something like 5 damage ratio and kill ratio and 75%. Bottom line TD's are meant to do damage, aim to do at leas twice your hp in damage in TD's. That said, damage is not everything.

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Bloodrave on Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:19 am

@Dannyboy

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings or something, sorry if I did but why do you ask for help if you don't want hear the answer or at least part of it?

Bloodrave wrote: If you want to compare with a specific tank, do it with your solo WR (I don't have access to noobmeter atm so I can't see if companies had a positive influence on your WR and only you can know what amount of games you played in platoons)
I cleary stated I didn't have access to sites like noobmeter when I wrote this message, if you would have used your ingame name as you forumname I would have been able to use google cache but you didn't. The fact you have 2k battles doesn't influence the core of what I said though.

Dannyboy wrote:I'm a 2k battles player with a less than half a years experience... i dont have T7 tanks, let alone T8 tanks
Having only 2,2k battles is not realy a reason to not have a T7 tank... you have played ~1300 games in T3 and T5...
Maybe I didn't spent enough time in the lower tiers myself, that and maybe the premium account might have spoilt me too much.

Dannyboy wrote:and even T2 is still not what could be justified as sealclubbing, given my lack of experience
Maybe my English is not good enough but where did I say you are a seal clubber?

I said "don't use a seal clubber tank to evaluate your overall performance", as in some tanks are way better than others don't use them to try and see what your current level is.

Dannyboy wrote:Plus, most of my T18 games were done about 1-2k battles ago
You took the T18 as an example, not me, not IronClaw, not Brainfarter.
My question is why did you give the T18 as example if it's stats are irrelevant? Why do even bother with the WR of a tank you havn't played in more than 1000 games?

RoninRage wrote:
@Bloodrave I agree most of the parts except the winrate part. Even if my winrate is not too bad (57 overall 55 randoms only) you should be afraid of having me in your team in the IS-3 or Centurion because most of the time I would not carry my weight even if I am able to do this and more on the tiers 1-6. But I am working on that and it will come with training, experience and reviewing my playstyle at least I think/hope so.
I didn't intend this to be a definitive guide Smile  But ofcourse you are right and that is the reason why I configured my XVM to show the stats in the loading screen in the following way:

<NICK> WN6 global_winrate total_games_played [ total_games_played_on_current_tank winrate_on_current_tank ]


Code:
   // Display format for the left panel (macros allowed, see readme-en.txt).
    "formatLeft": "<font color='{{c:kb}}'>{{kb}}</font> <font color='{{c:wn}}'>{{wn}}</font> <font color='{{c:rating}}'>{{rating}}</font> [{{t-battles}} <font color='{{c:t-rating}}'>{{t-rating}}</font>]",
    // Display format for the right panel (macros allowed, see readme-en.txt).
    "formatRight": "[{{t-battles}} <font color='{{c:t-rating}}'>{{t-rating}}</font>] <font color='{{c:rating}}'>{{rating}}</font> <font color='{{c:wn}}'>{{wn}}</font> <font color='{{c:kb}}'>{{kb}}</font>"
This gives me a better picture of the player, if I take the most extreme case I ever encountered it would be a person who had:
- 30k games played
- orange WN6
- i think he had around 45% WR

Now at first you would think you shouldn't be scared of him, but he had more than 500 games played on his current tank and a WR on his current tank of around 60%. So I put him on "watch out for this guy" list, he basically carried the game for his team and if I wouldn't have had my XVM setup the way I did I would have underestimated him and most likely have lost the "duel" I had with him.

Dannyboy wrote:well perhaps, but in no way should relative to the tank performance affect wr
Even 1500 games ago (nearly 8 months ago) I would have more or less said the same thing, but then I started to play the KV-1 and the KV-1S and oh boy did they change my view on this game... suddenly I was seriously putting my stamp on games...

I will still state that above a certain level overall WR doesn't mean much as it is artificially high for a lot people due to platoons and companies and thus don't reflect their real level of influence in a game. But I can also guarantee you that I will never float around the average WR ever again, because now even if sometimes it's very little compared to real good players I am able to help my team.

In case you wonder up untill I joined this clan I mostly played solo, I only played a handfull of platoons and 40 some fail companies I did while in -RRC- which only tanked my WR.
At around 2500 battles I was at 48,5% WR and now I'm at 52,5% I can assure you this didn't happen because I suddenly had more luck with my teams.

Dannyboy do yourself a favor and kick yourself out of the denail phase...
YES you are playing better than you used to...
BUT if you want to get better than average (and if average is your target I have no problem with that) you will need to change your view on the game.

Oh and according to wotlabs:

Server Statistics
Average Win Rate:49.5%
Average Tier:5.47
Average Efficiency:952
Average WN7 Rating:893
Players Tracked:342586
Clans Tracked:6272
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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Dannyboy on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:22 am

Because i think i'm a good player.... of course i don't. I know my mistakes, and i admit them

Reading your last paragraph Bloodrave: You can take your snide, unhelpful, patronising, rude and arrogant comments and place them in threads that aren't mine - oh and this is coming from someone who never gets externally angry, good job. Oh, and try doing what you've done with 6 fps every game, and no premium, no gold.

Thanks for your feedback Vallu and Ronin - i am always taking feedback like that on board even if i dont mention it.

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Kokotni on Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:47 am

Just to clarify to all, Danny's question was specifically about his win rate in the T18, not his overall win rate with all his tanks, and was a discussion we had the night before using in game chat. As a simplified way of how I perceived Danny to be looking at his stats for this tank with regards to his win rate, I presumed he was considering that if on average every player averages 1 kill per game, then in a course of random MM, you would have a win rate of 48% ( it doesnt matter what tiers you are facing as this should be averaged out), thus if Danny averages 2 kills per game, in theory his team should have the advantage more often than not, and this his win rate should be better than 48% in respect of the T18 only. I'm not saying this is what Danny said or meant, its how I interpreted what he was asking, in game, and thus the answer I gave him in game, which unfortunately I didnt explain very well at the time. This was not a general "how do I improve my win rate" post, it was a specific "why is my win rate not higher for this specific tank, based on these stats" question.

Danny

Most of what has been said above is what I was trying to explain in game chat last night (which obviously made it difficult to get my point across effectively), so I'm glad that you posted this on here and gave others a chance to give their points of view.

As we were talking last night, it was noted that our number of battles in T18's was similar, as well as our average number of kills, although my win rate was higher.

However what I couldnt get across at the time(due to wot not allowing me to see stats for some reason) was that my damage ratio was 3/1, where as yours is approximately 1.5/1, if you are averaging 160% of your t18's health per game. That too me says either 1) you are targeting the wrong enemy tanks (ie low health tanks) or 2) and this is what I suspect given your replies above, you are dying too early in the game.

As an example say we are on opposite teams in a tier 2 game in our T18's. Lets assume that the total HP pool on each team is 2000 (approx 133 per tank) We both kill the same 2 type of tanks, which have the exact same number of Hp at the time, so our performance is equal. No one else has killed anything or even damaged another tank ( I know the scenario is unrealistic but it just makes it easier to explain), so we have both done approx 266 damage,( this being a 2/1 damage ratio).

Due to your aggressive style, you are then killed, I carry on and do another 133 damage to other tanks before I die, so whilst the scores are equal between teams, effectively your team's HP have been reduced by a further tank, due to my additional 133 damage, thus my team has the slight advantage.

Therefore this is why I said you can't just look at your own performance in the T18, its an overpowered tank ( and thus should be dealing lots of damage in comparison to other t2 tanks), and thus the type of results you are getting is what the average player should expect to get in that tank (yes there will be exceptions). What you need to check is how other T18's are doing in the battle both on your own team and the enemy's and then compare their battle results to your own. On average the other tanks and players will even themselves out to give a 48% w/r overall, so you need to compare against those other T18's to see how they are performing, and compare how your performance rates to theirs. It's all well and good killing 5 tanks and doing 5 times your HP per game ( and with those stats, you'd wonder how can I even lose a game), until you find that other players in the same tank are getting on average 6 kills and doing 6 times HP damage per game

As an aside, and this is why I said I consider my T18 stats to be only average in itself, lets compare my  Universal Gun Carrier (Brit tier 2 Tank Destroyer). I played exactly half the number of battles as in my T18, my total damage given and total damage received is also half of the T18, hence why I think they are good for comparison,also they virtually have the same number of hit points. My average number of kills in the UC is 1.8, so slightly worse than the T18 but my damage ratio is 3.7/1, thus I would consider myself to be a more effective player in the UC than the T18, and that is reflected in my win rate of 61% in the UC compared to 56% in the T18. I also noted that of all my tier 2 TD's the T18 had the lowest survival rate in that I failed to get killed in 31% of my battles, which suggest that I play it quite aggressive too, where as my UC has a survival rate of 38%, suggesting I play this more like a classic TD.

However despite all the above, I'm aware that you have been having issues with your frame rates being really poor, so to achieve your results despite those issues is still good going, but hopefully the above will offer some explanation on why your win rate is not as high as you think it should be in the T18


Last edited by Kokotni on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:10 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Dannyboy on Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:10 pm

Thanks! - That was a helpful read

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Sapaki on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:52 pm

Dannyboy wrote:Because i think i'm a good player.... of course i don't. I know my mistakes, and i admit them

Reading your last paragraph Bloodrave: You can take your snide, unhelpful, patronising, rude and arrogant comments and place them in threads that aren't mine - oh and this is coming from someone who never gets externally angry, good job. Oh, and try doing what you've done with 6 fps every game, and no premium, no gold.

Thanks for your feedback Vallu and Ronin - i am always taking feedback like that on board even if i dont mention it.
I have followed this thread, and Danny, you are wrong when you say these things about Bloodrave. His advice is good and you should capitalize on that. He also took a lot of his time to help you with your question, and I did not perceive any arrogance or patronizing, only advice. Perhaps his advice was not to your liking, feel free to ignore it, but thinking that someone that tries to help you tries to make you look bad, is only a misconception from your behalf. I saw no arrogance or patronizing in his answer I am sorry, only arguments and discussion.

Moreover you cannot forbid people to post on your threads. Simply because you started a thread does not make it "your own". The threads here are for everyone and everyone can reply to them, even if the OP disagrees or does not like what is written in them.

If you want my 50c, you have the "inexperienced player" syndrome. You are over-eager and often commit yourself too much and quickly get isolated in some part of the map, facing ovrwelming odds agaisnt you. You might get 1-2 kills out of this, but you will eventually die, leaving the flank open, and in most cases the game is lost because of this, hence your "lower than expected w/r". If you look at experienced players they survive until the endgame. Do this. You will also find out that most damage is dealt and most kills are usually made during the late game. The game then "opens-up" and it is easier to flank, shoot from behind etc.

I had the same syndrome as you do (still have it), I felt it was my "moral' obligation towards the team to "defend" the weakest or the abandoned flank. With experience you will see that you do no service to your team this way. You can only defend solo in very specific choke-points which cannot be flanked and provided you do not face more that 2:1 odds.

Stick closer to your team, and do not commit to the "abandoned' flank alone. Better stay at base with the other base-campers, dig in and have your gun ready in the direction the enemy is likely to push. This way there will be more then one gun pointing at the enemy.

Also, since you invoked it, your fps rate is a big (maybe the biggest) issue for you. Your gameplay will suffer enormously, and you will suffer burnout much like I did because I was also running on a weak rig. I am more than aware of the financial limitations one might face in order to build a rig, but as I told you you must make this a long term objective and start collecting parts and modules. The good news is that you can actually play WoT with decent fps on a PC mainly composed from scraps.
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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Madhias on Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:36 pm

I just can say to you don`t worry Danny when I had as much battles as you in the past I was much weaker! My only goal was to get the T110E5  at any costs :)So I played quiet bad and just tried to get as manny games as fast as possible. My T29 WR was 44% - and that is still the best Tier 7 Tank in game! But it will come learning by doing like I did - or by watching pro players on youtube on any tanks you want to grind. So you will get you winrate up for sure mate don`t worry cheers
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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Sapaki on Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:57 pm

Yep, what Mad said too! 2-3k battles is still a low battlecount and your w/r will inevitably rise after you get 4 or 5k battles. Joining SGTA and platooning with others will also raise your w/r. Patience is the key here. Maybe it would be more beneficial to you to look at the stats in your more recent games only.

Other than that, don't focus on your stats that much. The might give you a hint that you are doing something wrong, but will rarely pinpoint what exactly you are doing wrong. The best way to become aware of what you are doing wrong is to play with more experienced players or instructors and ask for their feedback. This will be much more valuable information for you. The feedback I just gave in the post above you is based more on what I have seen from your gameplay, rather than your stats.

You will also find out things in classes, that when applied in practice will also benefit your game a lot.

Another thing you should also know is that you should be above average already. Your fps problem is probably taking 2-3% w/r and other stats away from you, as you are practically playing your game in slow motion. I admire you for this man, as I could not do what you do.

For one, you are curious and eager to learn. You will inevitably learn sooner or later, and stats are bound to follow.
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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Wasp on Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:12 am

Like some of the others already said there is more to winning a game than simply pouring dmg.

I know it is pretty generalised but there are two types of blue/purple eff players (assuming that people with high eff also have good WRs which is the case normally).

There are the ones who camp the whole match, do a lot of dmg with sniping and when they see one flank collapse they just keep sitting there and let the flank go down, even though them helping could have won that game or atleast the flank easily. They just wait for the enemy to come to their camping spot so they can do a bit more dmg before they die and lose the game. Ofc you can carry a few matches by being the last one alive but tbh that depends on luck alot.

The other kind of blue/purple eff players are playing actively (the old pts guys played like that). They work to secure chokepoints, try to achieve map control and push at the proper moments. Maybe they have 200-300 less dmg output or die from time to time but by playing active and helping the team they contribute alot more to victories than the camping ones do.

To get back to your question why the T18 do not give you the results you expect:
Ask yourself honestly which kind of player you are. The camping one who is just playing to maximize his stats or the actively contributing player.

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Dannyboy on Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:38 am

Sapaki wrote:
Dannyboy wrote:Because i think i'm a good player.... of course i don't. I know my mistakes, and i admit them

Reading your last paragraph Bloodrave: You can take your snide, unhelpful, patronising, rude and arrogant comments and place them in threads that aren't mine - oh and this is coming from someone who never gets externally angry, good job. Oh, and try doing what you've done with 6 fps every game, and no premium, no gold.

Thanks for your feedback Vallu and Ronin - i am always taking feedback like that on board even if i dont mention it.
I have followed this thread, and Danny, you are wrong when you say these things about Bloodrave. His advice is good and you should capitalize on that. He also took a lot of his time to help you with your question, and I did not perceive any arrogance or patronizing, only advice. Perhaps his advice was not to your liking, feel free to ignore it, but thinking that someone that tries to help you tries to make you look bad, is only a misconception from your behalf. I saw no arrogance or patronizing in his answer I am sorry, only arguments and discussion.

Moreover you cannot forbid people to post on your threads. Simply because you started a thread does not make it "your own". The threads here are for everyone and everyone can reply to them, even if the OP disagrees or does not like what is written in them.
Can i just ask if you're a native English speaker Sapaki?
If not, you may not have picked up on his underlying tone. If yes.. i found his post the above because:

'Having only 2,2k battles is not realy a reason to not have a T7 tank' - With avoiding to make this sound like an english literature paper, he's basically accusing me here of not having a T7 tank. And from the way i'm reading into comments like that, it makes me feel 'small' and a bad player.

I don't appreciate anyone telling me to 'kick myself' out of anything. If you want to offer some advice, don't be rude about it. And that was rude.

And i'm sorry to say, but saying 'can you please' is not forbiding. It was the most polite way i could possibly have asked (not forbidden) him to not comment on this thread, given i found his posts rude.

Wasp wrote:Like some of the others already said there is more to winning a game than simply pouring dmg.

I know it is pretty generalised but there are two types of blue/purple eff players (assuming that people with high eff also have good WRs which is the case normally).

There are the ones who camp the whole match, do a lot of dmg with sniping and when they see one flank collapse they just keep sitting there and let the flank go down, even though them helping could have won that game or atleast the flank easily. They just wait for the enemy to come to their camping spot so they can do a bit more dmg before they die and lose the game. Ofc you can carry a few matches by being the last one alive but tbh that depends on luck alot.

The other kind of blue/purple eff players are playing actively (the old pts guys played like that). They work to secure chokepoints, try to achieve map control and push at the proper moments. Maybe they have 200-300  less dmg output or die from time to time but by playing active and helping the team they contribute alot more to victories than the camping ones do.

To get back to your question why the T18 do not give you the results you expect:
Ask yourself honestly which kind of player you are. The camping one who is just playing to maximize his stats or the actively contributing player.
Thanks for the advice (which goes to everyone else who has posted as well). In answer to your final question - I wish i was more of a camping player. I have the opposite problem. I go for the points that need to be secured.. but in T2 eeeh.. sometimes you have the support, sometimes you dont and i should learn more quickly when you dont

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  RoninRage on Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:25 am

Hmmm don't take that to personal by bloodrave he isn't a native speaker either nor am I that might be the reason why I also did not read it that way. But let me tell you one thing I had a tier 7 and 8 tank with under 800 battles and the only thing they did to me was make my stats drop like a stone.

Also I think they are still the reason why I don't like tier 7 and 8 battles and I don't feel comfortable there.
I stepped back from them did a lot of battles on lower tiers and researched and played many tanks till tier 6. Because I decided more to play on tiers I feel comfortable in, where I also perform alot better and advance much slower thru the tiers to gain more skills, more awarness and so on.

Now on 4,5K battles I only own 2 non premium tier 8s no 9s and 10s. I am not eager to go to 10 because I don't perform how I wish to in 7 and 8 at the moment.
So: take your time try to be confident when entering a battle because you know you can handle that tier and do what Mad said don't worry to much. You are here to learn your posts and questions in academy HQ show that you are eager to learn and perform better => winrate and stats will get better.

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Dannyboy on Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:32 am

RoninRage wrote:Hmmm don't take that to personal by bloodrave he isn't a native speaker either nor am I that might be the reason why I also did not read it that way. But let me tell you one thing I had a tier 7 and 8 tank with under 800 battles and the only thing they did to me was make my stats drop like a stone.

Also I think they are still the reason why I don't like tier 7 and 8 battles and I don't feel comfortable there.
I stepped back from them did a lot of battles on lower tiers and researched and played many tanks till tier 6. Because I decided more to play on tiers I feel comfortable in, where I also perform alot better and advance much slower thru the tiers to gain more skills, more awarness and so on.

Now on 4,5K battles I only own 2 non premium tier 8s no 9s and 10s. I am not eager to go to 10 because I don't perform how I wish to in 7 and 8 at the moment.
So: take your time try to be confident when entering a battle because you know you can handle that tier and do what Mad said don't worry to much. You are here to learn your posts and questions in academy HQ show that you are eager to learn and perform better => winrate and stats will get better.

Greets
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Yeah, the wr was simply a curious wonderment which has turned out to be quite a big topic....

That's exactly what i think! I want to take my time in each tank, get to know my own tanks and the enemies, exploring TDS, heavies, mediums and a bit of lights, try to learn my playstyle and how to improve my playstyle whilst in lower tiers, because its easier too then.

I guess, just be careful what you say if you're not a native and speak quite... brashly.. because like any language, you can say things in a way you may not mean, and others might pick up on it, they might not. The horrible English Lit lessons i had drilled in the idea of taking implicit meanings (reading between the lines) of texts

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  IronClaw on Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:58 am

In one of your posts, you said:

I'm a 2k battles player with a less than half a years experience... i dont have T7 tanks, let alone T8 tanks [...]
To me (and I think also to Bloodrave) that sounds like you are saying that it is difficult or at least unnatural for anyone with 2k battles to have a T7 or higher tank. Could be that you didn't mean it like that, but I think that's how it sounds. Seen in the light of that:


Having only 2,2k battles is not realy a reason to not have a T7 tank
Sounds kinda logical. And I think that is how it was meant. Maybe it's because I'm also not a native english speaker, but I too could find little bad in Bloodrave's post.

That having said: there's many reasons for not having a T7 tank, and no one will judge you them.

I think in SGTA, many of us are a little "touchy" when it comes to any "excuses" for not having good stats. I don't mean to say *you* are making excuses, just that many people will quickly feel like someone is. Can't really blame them when we see topics like this day in day out Razz

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Dannyboy on Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:19 am

Other than fps (which i think is fair enough) i never (well other than the odd mini rant which means nothing) make excuses for my play

Personally I think Ronin's and my logic is more sound. Why rush into higher tiers when i dont fully know even the tier 5/6 tanks. For me, i see no reason to move into higher tiers yet, particularly as one is less able to change around in tank lines/playstyle once you have dedicated yourself to T7. For now, I am happy in T6 and below. You may disagree, but i hope that you can respect that decision, which Bloodrave didnt seem to do.

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  IronClaw on Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:32 am

Dannyboy wrote:Other than fps (which i think is fair enough) i never (well other than the odd mini rant which means nothing) make excuses for my play

Personally I think Ronin's and my logic is more sound. Why rush into higher tiers when i dont fully know even the tier 5/6 tanks. For me, i see no reason to move into higher tiers yet, particularly as one is less able to change around in tank lines/playstyle once you have dedicated yourself to T7. For now, I am happy in T6 and below. You may disagree, but i hope that you can respect that decision, which Bloodrave didnt seem to do.
I respect that, mainly in the sense that it is none of my business anyway, we all play this game in our own way. And besides, it's a hobby, no one is paying to do it, so no one but you can say in what way to play it.

However, out of curiosity (so no sarcasm intended): when do you think it will be time for you to move on to higher tiers? When you say: "i dont fully know even the tier 5/6 tanks", I would like to point out that you might *never* know all tier 5/6 tanks fully. How much is "full" anyway? Do you quantify that by some stat? Or is it just feeling based? And also out of curiosity, what do you think is so different at tier 7 (or 8, or 9) than at tier 6?
And last but not least, when we take that statement "i dont fully know even the tier 5/6 tanks", does that mean that you "fully know" tier 4 tanks, since you decided to move beyond them? (Which of course again makes me ask how you quantified that)

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Dannyboy on Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:37 am

The 'fully' one: I classify that as knowing the strengths and weaknesses of the gun,armor and mobility of all the tanks in that tier. perhaps my tier 5 knowledge in that sense is almost full, but certainly not for T6.

When do i plan on moving to T7? I just have enough experience to unlock the IS. When i have the cash i may plan on it, although i'd like to improve on the KV1s first.

For a lot of tanks, particularly that russian heavy line, there is a fair relationship between all the tanks, and the tanks logically build up from each other for the most part. If i havent mastered, or more realistically, got quite good at it 1 tank, why take on the next tank, which will pit me against even harder players, and more unfamiliar tanks?

Hope that answered your questions well

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Re: What needs to be done for an 'average wr'

Post  Sapaki on Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:54 am

You have obviously taken the bloodrave wrong. With what he wrote he is actually helping you and there is realy no indication that you are looked down upon.

That being said, no one suggested that you should rush to higher tiers. If you ask anyone he will agree with that.

What bloodrave is saying, and he is right, is that you cannot realy come to any reliable conclusion about how effective you are in battle, because the teams you get in lower tiers are far more inconcistent.

Instead of interpreting tones and finding offence where you think it is, try to focus on what message he wants to convey to you. His arguments are valid and he is right you know.

Again, don't rely on stats and try to interpret them. Focus on learning and your stats will follow you.

Usualy it takes at least 1k battles in order to begin to grasp the basics of the game (hence the 1k battle requirement we have). Therefore 50% of your current stats are lying about your performance. Put in 5-6k battles, and the irrelevant part drops down to 20%, therefore making your stats more relative. Most people turn purple after 10k battles, if they ever will, and most of the unicums you see are nothing than statpadders, many of which are on alt vanity accounts, tons of gold are pourred in so as to avoid any grinding ( stat killer), all this for them to get a nice epeen number to show around.

Don't fall for stats, it's a typical noob trap! Little or no conclusions can be drawn solely based on stats. Try to get feedback from your gameplay, as well as knowledge from all the classes available to you.



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